Oh Boy, First thread- How much power

[Gordon Levy]

Maybe we can use this thread to give hp estimates for different packages. What do you think?

[Kyle Stewart]

1966, 289 block rebuild. Stock everything but need new pistons. Any suggestions for a "run around town" 67 fairlane?

[Gordon Levy]

225-250 depending on cam and carb stock.
The 289 is a great engine. It can produce 350hp pretty easily with the right parts.
Good rebuild with flat top forged piston
Edelbrock Performer RPM or like heads
Proper hydraulic flat tappet cam
Performer RPM ontake
Holley 670 street avenger carb
This will give you a real 325-350hp and be daily driver realiable.

[turbodon]

408, Victor Jr Heads & intake, Holley HP 750, Roller lifters/rockers (1.6), 10.1 compression, cam 224/232 @50 with 542/563 lift.

[bill fuss]

This sounds like fun.

[bill fuss]

Im putting together a 351w,stock/printed short block/retrofit hyd.roller 224/232 .556/.566 w 1.6 rockers,twisted wedge heads w bowl/port work, rpm manifold, 750 edelbrock carb. Whats your opinion on using a hv oil pump. Ive got .0018/.0021 bearing clearance. Forgot to say pistons hyper. flat top/12cc reliefs.

[Joe R]

392 with 15cc dish(9.7 to 1), AFR 185's, Vic junior, balanced,4150 750 holley, CC XE284H(.540/.541 240/246@.050), CC pro-mag Roller rockers. How much HP??

[Gordon Levy]

Don, You will be really close to 480/480
Mill, don't use a HV pump. 1 out of 5 will distroy the engine. You engine will be right around 380-400hp.
Joe, 420-450 with a proper tune.

[Jack ffr1846]

Oh, I like this:

Explorer 302 (has GT40...not p heads and explorer upper/lower)
Mustang throttle body and mass air
E303 cam.

[Gordon Levy]

Jack, 270-280

[Mike D]

Stock 5.0 lower end, E-cam, Twisted Wedge heads, Edlebrock Performer 5.0 intake, 70mm MAF and TB, 19lb injectors.

500/500 right? :D

[Gordon Levy]

Mike, About 300. 275 if you have a stock cam.

[Mike D]

Definitely some cam in there, is that rear wheel or crank you're estimating? After it's on the road I'll probably have a dyno/tune done, be interesting to see the numbers but I can already tell it's gonna be fun no matter what they are.

[PSB]

I'm in!

408W
11:1 Compression ratio
AFR 185 heads
- Multi-angle valve job from Total Engine Airflow
- 65 cc chambers (I had them opened up to lower compression)
Scorpion 1.6:1 roller rockers
Trick Flow 351W intake
75 mm TB and MAF
36lb injectors
Levy Racing road race oil pan (good for at least 50hp right ;) )
Comp Cams hydraulic roller cam - Specs:
http://members.cox.net/petescobra2/cam%20specs.jpg


Pete

[Greytracer]

OK guess this one:

410W forged crank/rods, 4" stroke and 4.040 bore, AFR 225 heads, flat top pistons, 12.5:1 CR, 1 7/8" primary headers, Solid Roller w/ Comp 286R 248/254 .615" lift, Wayne's stacks port matched with AEM computer, coil per plug, crank triggered, Gordon's oil pan.

Mark

[Brick4brains]

1986 302 block decked, bored .030 over, stock crank, Eagle rods, forged flat tops, FMS X cam, 1.6 rockers, AFR 185s, Edelbrock Air Gap intake, Holley 750 double pumper w/choke horn milled off, all MSD. Currently puttint 313 HP to the ground.

Changing to custom ground Comp Cam somewhere in the 236/240 .555/.576 range, Victor Jr. intake. Also going with a valve spring upgrade.

Drew

[Gordon Levy]

I need to say first is most of my guesses are just that based on what we have done with very simular engines in the past. I do have engine programs I can run this up on but it would take a couple of hours for each one. The numbers I give is estimated flywheel hp.
PSB, around 525hp/500 torque- You will pick up over 40hp if you went to a carb.
2370, I think your engine is capable of over 600hp with a carb. I believe the injection system is going to cost you some hp. Do some research on independent runner intakes and you will see what I mean.
Brick, 313 at the rears is equal to about 370 at the flywheel. Going to a different cam and a Victor Jr intake is going to help a lot. Maybe another 25-30hp or so. I also think you should use a 650 carb instead of the 750. It may cost you 5hp at the top but your throdle response will go way up.

[Larry N. Johnson]

Gordon,
As you know, Old 3850 has a bone stock 95 Cobra engine. Cobra upper and lower, GT40 iron heads, Crane rockers, 24 lb injetors. No smog stuff at all. It goes like crazy...any idea what HP is has? Any idea if the cam is different than a std HO engine?

Also, I have to shift 5800 or it cuts out. Would that be valve springs too weak or the X3Z computer holding back?

Thanks!

[David Borden]

Larry, im going to guess around 260 hp.

Gordon has been pretty right on with his estimates based on what I have come across.

David

[Useless]

Need some tech.Gordon and I have talked about this before but know I need alittle more.What I need is a drawing or diagram of Ford flat top pistons with larger valve reliefs in them with depth for 2.02 valves and big cam . I have mocked the engine up and showed the machine shop the puddy but they donot want the work or do not understand it. Ibelieve if it was a SBC they would maybe understand thanks ahead

[Useless]

Sorry maybe I should have started a new tread

[Grembler2]

Ok, I got one for ya Gordon,
How about the 331 Levy Special that you are building for me for my Coupe?

Eric

[Gordon Levy]

Useless, Find another machine shop. Any machinist worth his salt can fly cut the pistons for you. The other option is to buy a set of pistons that are designed for you engine set up. Please feel free to call me if you have any questions.
Larry, I agree with David on about 260.
Eric, It will be a very real 450 and can be tuned for more.

[BillHeffelfinger]

Gordon: Ford Motor Co. crate engine, edelbrock intake and carb. MSD6 ignition system. (what a great thread).

[Gordon Levy]

Bush, It depends on which engine you have. Ford has been pretty close with their numbers so I believe you will be close to what they advertize.

[dv/dt]

Hi Gorden,
How about a refreshed 302, 58cc AFR 165's, QR Mass-Flo with a Spyder II intake, F303 cam, 30 lb injectors, 4-into-4's, no smog.

Cheers, Rod

[Scott Shumaker]

Gordon try this one:

372w, 9.5 to 1, Vic jr heads(box stock), Offenhauser dual plane, 750 Mighty Demon, 1.6 roller rockers, hyd flat lifters, Comp Cam specs .532in .545ex durations 234in 246ex at .050 112 lobe sep, Paxton 1200 supercharger pushing around 7psi

[Gordon Levy]

dv, about 325-340
Scott, I would really need to run it up on the computer because of the blower, but as a guess I would say around 550. Your cam has a little to much overlap for the blower to be at full efficantcy. I think you would make better power with a little less duration and a 114 degree center.

[BS]

Well, maybe I can save buying parts twice if you can give me an idea where I'll be with this combo and an alternate choice.

393 Windsor, TFS Stage 1 cam, GT40P heads mild port and gasket matched, 20CC dish pistons 9.7:1 CR, Weiand Stealth manifold, Holley or Edelbrock 750, Ford Shorty headers into J-pipes. Underdrive pulleys, with serpentine set-up. Ford retrofit roller lifters and 1.6 roller rockers.

How much would I gain with a TFS Stage 2 cam and a different intake? Any other cheap ways to gain a bit of HP?

Thanks,
Bob

[Gordon Levy]

On a 393, the heads and exhaust you are proposing is going to cost you a lot of potential power. You really need much better heads and full length enhaust.

[BS]

Okay, if I go with the 4 into 4 headers, and some TFS heads, what am I looking at? I'm shooting for around 400 hp or around about there. Way more than I need, but, well, you know......

Bob

[Gordon Levy]

Bob, With the cam your listed, TFS heads, Victor Jr intake, Holley 650 pro carb, you are looking at realisticly the upper 3's on hp.

[Sean Teague]

Alright I gotta try this smile.gif

404ci 351W (0.060 over, 3.9 stroke with 6.400 rods)
Approx 14:1 compression
TFS Street Heat (Hi-Port) heads flowing 321 int and 240 ex
Lunati solid roller cam (.699 in / .672 ex, 278 in/ 282 ex @ .050, installed at 108 int c/l)
Super Victor intake ported to match heads
Barry Grant 1000cfm Silver Claw carb

[BillHeffelfinger]

Aw shucks, forgot to include the cubic inch. The Ford engine is a 302. Thanks for your polite reply. So, what can I expect from this 302 with edelbrock intake, edelbrock carb and MSD ignition???? Take two.

[Giff]

1996 351w
Stock heads 9-1 cpmpression
Performer RPM intake and 750 Carb
FMS F cam, MSD6, FFR 4into4's??

Now, how much will changing from the stock EFI iron heads to Edelbrock Perf. RPM aluminum heads with 1.6 rockers give me? (The Edelbrock heads have 60cc chambers which I *think* will increase the compression ratio signifigantly..

[Gordon Levy]

Bush, 320-340
Giff, 330+or-
Sean- I will have to run it through the program and see for sure, but off the top of my head pretty close to 560-580 or so. I think you would pick up some more power going to a Victor SR head.

[dv/dt]

Hi Gorden,
Thanks for the feedback! I was looking for around 350 but your estimates would be fine. Since I haven't bought the heads yet, would there be any potential gain (or loss) with 58cc AFR 185's. (In either case I plan on doing the spring upgrade.) Can the stock '87 forged pistons be flycut beyond what they are to get the additional clearance for the larger valves or would I need new pistons. Reason I ask about the 185's is to allow for growth (SC or stroke) down the road.

Thanks again, Rod


Original Post:
Hi Gorden,
How about a refreshed 302, 58cc AFR 165's, QR Mass-Flo with a Spyder II intake, F303 cam, 30 lb injectors, 4-into-4's, no smog.

Cheers, Rod

[BS]

Gordon,
Thanks for the input. With my combo, is the cam the biggest limiting factor or do I have other areas I need to address?
What cam would be a good one to use the potential in this unit? Would the Comp cams XR282 be a good cam for this combo?
I'm looking for it to be as streetable as possible, seldom will see the track (we'll see how long my will power lasts!)
Would I be better off doing this with a 351 instead of going the stroker route? I'm trying to build a budget set up and I have a standared 74 block that I'll be taking .030" over, and everything except the stroker crank and pistons, and intake at the moment. My stock crank will need to be turned .020/.010 and I have football rods now in good shape. I'm holding off spending the money until I find the right combo of power, streetability, and affordability (Okay, I'm cheap). Since I can assemble the engine myself, with a little help from my anal engine building buddy, I need a good list of parts that will make the most sense for the power and budget I'm looking at.
Sorry this is so long winded. Hope you can help me out. Let me know if this would be better handled off line.

Thanks,
Bob

[Gordon Levy]

dv, a set of 185 or Performer RPM with give you some more power specifically in the top end. The other thing is that cam. There are much better choices out there. I think with the right cam and heads you will be in the 370-380 range pretty easily.

[Gordon Levy]

BS, turning the crank 20/10 is not an issue. Just use a Cleavite H series bearing. Use a good set of forged piston and the Xr288 or XR 294 cam, Performer RPM or Victor JR head, Victor JR intake and Holley 650 pro carb and you would have a great running package. Make sure everything is properly balanced and you will have around 400hp with the RPM heads or 425 with the Victor Jrs.

[dv/dt]

Hi Gordon,
Interesting, I haven't bought the heads or cam yet. If I was to go with the 58cc AFR 185's what cam would you suggest? What about with the 165's? I am planning on 1.6 roller rockers so I'm assuming with the 185's and a higher power cam I would have to cut the pistons. Can the stock forged pistons be cut (cut enough)? BTW, I am trying to keep the idle reasonable and not having to set it way up because of the cam.

Thanks again for the feedback!!

Rod

[spotter]

Hi Gord...
302 with trick flow twisted wedge heads,
gt40 upper & lower intakes with computer upgrade, 24lb. injectors, e303 cam, mac shorty headers

[BillHeffelfinger]

Gordon, thanks for the reply on my Ford crate 302 engine with edelbrock intake and carb. 320-340 sounds good to me. BTW, I have often wondered what changes, in order of easiest to most expensive, would give me extra hp. And how much would your shop charge to do each change. I'm thinking of some kind of upgrade for more power.

[Gordon Levy]

DV, actually I have a couple of cam profiles that would make great power with the 185 heads and you would not have to have the pistons cut. Yes Forged piston can be cut if you want more lift.
Spotter, You will make between 320-340 on hp.
Bush, What we charge depends on what we are doing. We look at it on a package basis. As for cost of packages from inexpensive to expensive would take quite some time to write as the options are limitless, it would make a nice sized book.
If you are looking for more power than the crate engine options that are out there, then one of our packages might be the way to go. All or our engines are hand build one at a time and each one is designed for how it will be used.
If you wanted to supercharge in the future, then I would recommend going with EFI instead of carb and a custom engine instead of a crate engine. The Ford engine you are looking at has hyperutectic pistons which are not idea for supercharging and the ring gaps are to tight.

[Mike D]

Spotter's motor:
302 with trick flow twisted wedge heads,
gt40 upper & lower intakes with computer upgrade,
24lb. injectors, e303 cam, mac shorty headers[/]

Gordon says: 320-340

My motor:
[i]Stock 5.0 lower end, E-cam, Twisted Wedge heads, Edlebrock Performer 5.0 intake, 70mm MAF and TB, 19lb injectors.

Gordon says: 300

I'm getting screwed! :D
Bur seriously, I'm lost on these FI motors, where's the difference? I understood the 19lb injectors to be good for way more than 300hp and the Edlebrock's supposed to be better than the GT-40 intake. Is it the chip

[Gordon Levy]

Mike, I tend to think your car is going to go lean at high rpm with 19# injectors. If you go to 24# and do a little tuning it will pick up 20-25hp.

[jammin1]

can someone estimate my HP. i have a stock 5.0 EFI with 30lb injectors and powerdyne supercharger with 6lb pully.
i am considering putting a 9lb. pully on it and changing out the heads and intake. how much of a increase would i see with these mods.

[Mike D]

Thanks Gordon. I've got what sounds like a collapsed lifter, today was the first day I even ran it up to temp so I'm hoping it's just sticky, or even better a mis-adjusted rocker, but if I have to yank the top off I'll see about bumping up to 24 pounders. If not then it'll be a later upgrade.
So much to learn about this stuff.

[Gordon Levy]

Jammin, about 325.
Mike, If you need some hold on your engine please give me a call at 480-446-8442.

[Mike D]

Will do Gordon, thanks!

[Shep]

OK - Lets try mine:

Stock FMS 5.0 short block, E-303 cam, Edelbrock Performer heads, Performer upper/lower intake, Scorpion 1.6 roller rockers, MSD dstb with MSD6AL, 70mm MAF, 70mm TB, 24lb injectors and FMS shorties. Will go to the chassis dyno in about another month, but I'm curious as to what I might make.

[Gordon Levy]

325- 340, 260-270 rear wheel

[Shep]

Thanks Gordon. I was conservatively hoping to break the 300 mark. I'll let you know what the dyno says!

[P Wyman]

Gordon,

I'm not making this up,
Stock 2v '66 289 (Fairlane) with FFR's 4 to 4 headers.
How much hp will a 650 carb and Edlebrock RPM combo add?
How bad are the stock heads?

Will I own the slowest FFR Roadster?

Pat

[Gordon Levy]

YYY, your engine won't run with a 4bbl on it if you don't change the cam. That engine is 175hp originally and isn't cammed for the bigger carb.
The 289 pre-smog heads are actully very good with a little work done to them. If you do a cam change to a mold cam and run the carb and intake you want, it will make about 250hp.

[mdspicer]

OK - Lets try mine:

Stock 5.0 (refreshed), E-303 cam, PortedExploder upper, ported GT40 lower, 65mm intake/EGR, 75mm meter, Harland-Sharp 1.6 roller rockers on decked and ported E7 heads (Thumper), stock (forged) pistons, stock distributor, MSD6AL, MSD blaster coil, 24# injectors, underdrive pullies, FMS shorties, and QR racing 7qt pan. No smog.

Also, what are the expected HP losses if adding power steering?

Any setup/optimization tips?

Thanks

Marc

[Gordon Levy]

Marc. maybe 300hp. Better heads and intake would help a bunch as well as a better cam. You can expect to loose 20hp from the use of power steering.

[mdspicer]

Gordon,

Thanks. I would love to mount a set of AFR 165's but compromises have to be made in the name of finishing the build within budget. What cam would you recommend with this setup ("spirited" cruising and the occasional auto-X). Like most, I want the best of all worlds. BTW, this engine was profiled for going with a Vortec blower (5-6# boost).

Marc

[Gordon Levy]

I have a couple of profiles that we designed for this that would work well for your car. Give me a call and I can get you one.

[David Ward]

Gordon, how 'bout this set-up? 1995 302, stock bottom end and pistons, Twisted Wedge heads, Ford F cam, 1.6 ratio roller rockers, Performer RPM intake, 600 cfm Holley with vacuum secondaries, MSD ignition, MSD distributor with mechanical advance.

Thanks,
David

[Gordon Levy]

David, around 325hp. Yours is very simular to many of the other packages that are listed. The aluminum head, letter cam packages on stock bottom ends are all going to be 300-340 depending on intake and tuning. To make a jump from there takes a complete rebuild with better cams, pistons, heads, and intakes.
We just dynoed one of our stage 3 306 engines at over 370 RWHP. To get to this takes a significant amount of time and money.

[Rickster]

How about a 351 EFI roller
with:
24lb. injectors
TFS Stage II cam
TFS intake
75mm TB
80mm MAF
4into4's
and both:
GT40P &
AFR185 heads...?

Oh...and how will that cam sound?

TIA!

[ January 21, 2005, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: Rickster ]

[Gordon Levy]

Rick, Checking out the TFS cam, are you thinking the 000, 001, or 002?
I wouldn't even concider the gt40P heads at all, they will not work. The AFR 185 or Victor Jr head would work better, my preference is the Victor Jr. You will need 30# injectors, 24's won't keep up at high revs. You will also make more power with a carb, the recommended intake for the best flow would be the Victor 5.0 with the 351 bottom.
Are you keeping the AOD? if you are it will need to be beefed up and a 3000 stall converter used.
Using the Victor Jr heads and victor 5.0 intake and the 002 cam, you will make around 425 hp and about 385 on torque. It will have a pretty flat torque curve and with proper machining and balancing, it should spin to around 6800 revs pretty easily. If you go with a Victor JR intake and a 650 pro carb, you would pick up around 35hp and 30lbft of torque.

[Steven K]

Gordon,

5.0 bored 20 over
GT40P heads
1.6 roller rockers
roller lifters
B cam
Explorer intake
24# injectors

Thanks!

[Gordon Levy]

Steve, 280-300.

[Steve Paepke]

Gordon:
1989 5.0;.030 over; Comp Xtreme Energy 266 hydraulic roller cam W/1.6 rockers; 185 AFR heads with Coast High performace pistons that give a mid 9 compression ratio; performer RPM and a 650 vaccuum secondary Speed Demon; used as a daily driver.
thanks
Steve

[Mike Leaf Fan]

Hi Gord;

I've got a 302, balanced and honed (306?). Eldebrock Perf Alum heads, Ford Motor Sport 1.6 roller rockers(pedestal), FMS X303 Cam. 24lb. injectors and Very Cool Parts Stack Injection system. Can you ballpark me a horsepower figure?
Thx: Mike

[Steve]

Gordon,
I appreciate you taking the time to guestimate HP and torque for me.

.060 over 351W with 4.0 stroke and 6.200 rods with KB319 pistons ( 10:1 comp ) 414 cubes ( my calc ).

Protopline 200cc heads w 64cc chambers( flow very similar to Vic Jrs )

Comp XE284H ( flat hyd cam, 240 x 246 @ .050 and 540 lift )

Victor Jr. intake and a Holley 750 ( vac secondary for now )

FFR 4 into 4 headers and side pipes for exhaust.

Please tell me what you think.

[Gordon Levy]

Steve P- about 350
Mike- 330-350
Wurf- I think a realistic 525 and about the same on torque. You could see as much as 540 with the proper tune.

[Steve]

graemlins/evil.gif Yes..... the Goodyears will not be pleased heh heh....

Thanks Gordon

[Tom Keiser]

Gordan,

92 302 stock block, iron heads, port matched and smog bumps removed, E-303 cam, Explorer intake, 24lb. injectors, Crane 1.7 roller rockers, 65 TB, 75 ProM MAF, V1-SC Vortech at 6 lbs.

Thanks;
Tom

[Gordon Levy]

Tom, 350 +/-

[StephenP]

This will be my first step up from a 186,000 mile donor that is in the car now - 4000 miles on that one. Mmachine shop to clean & confirm my measurements on the block, new cam bearings and oil/ freeze plugs. If it does not measure up I will debate new short block vs. investing in machine work.

Thanks

I will be putting together:
......
Stock lower 302 (crank, pistons, new bearings & rings)
B303 cam
1.7 rockers
y303 heads (plan to port match to MAC shortie unequals via Felpro gasket)
Explorer intake (to be port matched to TB, in the middle, and to heads)
70mm BBK TB (no EGR)
75MM ProM matched to 24# injectors

Best guess?

[Pathfinder]

Hi Gordon,

How about this one?

347 stroker with cast steel crank, H-beam rods, and forged pistons - 9to1
1992 64cc Trick Flow iron twisted wedge heads with stage II porting
Intake = 263cfm at .5” lift
Exhaust = 209 cfm at .5” lift
Welded and ported GT-40 intake flow tested at 311 cfm per runner average
77mm ProM Mass Air Flow Meter
SVO 36 lb injectors
Crane Cams no. 449601 / Grind HR-224/339-2S-12
Intake lift = 542
Exhaust lift = 563
Intake duration = 224
Exhaust duration = 232
Underdrive pulleys
No smog equipment
MSD 6AL
Standard volume oil pump
TriStates 4x4 headers

The engine was rebuilt and blueprinted in 1992 by Miller Machine in Haverhill, MA. Mileage since rebuilding is estimated at 500.

Soon to have a fine Levy Road Race oil pan.

John Minton FFR4174

[Gordon Levy]

John, If you are using a 75mm t-body I think your power is going to land at 420-435 at the flywheel with 425lbft of torque. If you changed to a Victor Jr carb abd a Holley 650 pro series, you will pick up about 35hp and 30lbft of torque.

[Pathfinder]

Thanks Gordon,

I was told the engine was over 400hp. Nice to hear you agree. And yes the T-Body is 75mm.

John Minton FFR4174

[slocobra]

I would appreciate your opinion/hp estimate on this setup. I am heading to the local dyno as soon as its running and for fun I would like to see how close you are.

306cu
10:1
edl. RPM heads (2.02) very mild clean up
1.6 rr's
comp cams xe282 hyd roller
edelbrock dual quad intake with 500's

Electric water pump/ no powersteering
4 into 4's

Thanks!

[Gordon Levy]

It really depends on the dyno you want me to compare to. There are 3 types that most everyone uses.
Mustang- What most manufacturers use to base there numbers on. For the most parts, they tend to read a little low but are real world with the number
Dyno-Dynamics- One of my favorites to use. Very real numbers. Very simular to the Mustang
Dyno-Jet- I don't have much faith the their numbers. I have only seen 1 or 2 that are calibrated correctly. I see things like a stock Viper putting over 500hp to the rear wheels- I think not.

Now for hp numbers on your engine. I see a couple of things you have to contend with. First is your carberation. That is a great intake to run but it is designed to run over 8000 revs. You are going to hurt on low end torque as well as the lower mid-range. At higher revs, it will come hard but you cam is going to fall off as the intake is really starting to work. To combate some of this, I feel the a couple of 360 Holleys would be a better carb choice. Try it as is, I would be curious on your power curve. If you aren't happy, it can always be changed.

At the flywheel, I think your engine would be capable of 390-405hp with the right tune. Figure 17-22% drivetrain lose on the wheel dyno, you should be between 300-325 at the rear wheels.

A friend of mine has a 67 Gurney Bud Moore T/A Cougar that we use that intake on. On the 289 it is like driving a 2 stroke motor cycle. The revs hit about 4500 and the car really takes off. We shift it at 7800.

[slocobra]

I wish I could use holleys, but they won't fit on the f-28 manifold. I had this engine in my falcon before I took it out. I was extremely happy with the whole setup. The only thing I really changed from the last time i had it running was the cam. It had a smaller custom grind erson cam in it. too bad its a hyd roller, it kind of keeps the shift point low......

thanks for taking the time to give me your thoughts

-Brad

[Shep]

Gordon - You were pretty close on the numbers. Your estimate was 260-270 RWHP. Today's dyno run produced 281 RWHP with 322 of torque. Thanks again.

[ March 31, 2005, 06:21 AM: Message edited by: Shep ]

[Gordon Levy]

Sounds like a nice street car, have fun with it.

[Wheels]

Gordon,How about 331,10-1 compression,Eder.2.02 heads,rpm cam & Weber set-up with 44 or 48 mm IDFs, depending on what you think is better,& long tube headers,Thanks

[Gordon Levy]

Wheels, There are several variables that is going to deturnine power. One biggie is cam profile and how hard you want to turn the engine. With a good designed hydraulic roller, you can be in the 400-425 at 6800 revs. If you go with bigger heads and a solid roller cam and rev to 7500, you can make 500-520. I still think you would make more power with a single plane intake and carb. I do know it will drive a lot better.

[Wheels]

Gordon ,I noticed you said not to use hi-vol oil pump,do you just use a stock one ? Thanks

[Gordon Levy]

Small Fords do not like HV pumps and 1 out of 5 will distroy the engine.

[jhilb]

Hi Gordon. Got another for you if you would please... thanks jeff

Ford 302 (5.0) block out of 1991 mustang. Refreshed with all new parts.
Hypereutic Pistons
Stock Rods, ARP rod bolts
Crane Compucam 2031 for use with 1.7 ratio cobra rockers for supercharged applications
1.7 Crane Cams Aluminum Rocker Arms
Edlebrock Performer Aluminum Heads
Ford Graphite Head gaskets and yield-to-torque head bolts
Edlebrock Performer Lower Intake
Edlebrock Performer Upper Intake
Pro-M Bullet Mass Air Flow meter
BBK throttle body
BBK Phenolic 1” Spacer
Crane Double Roller Timing Chain
ARP Bolts used through entire engine
K&N air filter
Powerdyne 6lb Supercharger with blow-off valve
MSD Billet Distributor
MSD Cap and Rotor
MSD 6A Ignition Box

[Joe Campbell]

Me too when you have some time please...Thx.

351W stroked to 395 (4.04 bore, 3.85 stroke)
~9.5:1 compression
Comp Cam XE274H, .519/.523 gross lift, 230/236@.050", 110deg. LSA
1.7 RR
World Products Windsor Sr. iron heads, unported, 2.02/1.6
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
Holley 670cfm Street Avenger
4-into-4's w/ Lobaks.

Oh, and I'm at 4300 ft. altitude!

[billynewk]

Great post!
351w block stroked to 383 inches
Eagle forged crank and H beam rods,
SRP forged pistons 8.3:1
AFR 185 heads
TFS intake
TFS stage 2 cam (224 intake/232 exhaust,.542 in./.563 in.)
Bosch 42# SVO injectors
Pro-M MAF
Aeromotive Fuel rails/regulator
Mac throttle body
MSD Pro-billet Distributor
Crane Hi6 and coil
Crane Gold rockers
ARP main studs
ARP head studs
BBK unequal length headers, J-pipe, and Tri-states auger sidepipes

ATI Procharger P1-SC 11PSI @6000rpm, no intercooler

Tuned by Detroit Speedworks

You do not recommend HV oil pumps? Thought about replace to HV when I install Levy oil pan

[edhunter]

OK, I'm curious too, and thanks to Gordon for speeding his time and brain cells here..
My motor - '84 351W, Hyper flat top pistons +0.060, Comp Cams .512/.512 lift, Stealth intake, stock heads ported and bowl blending with larger valves (1.9/1.6 I think) Holley 750DP carb... Crane HI6 ignition
Any guesses?
thanks again, looking forward to firing motor for first time this weekend!
ed

[Gordon Levy]

Billy, about 550hp-600hp with the right tune. I believe the intake might hurt you a little. Which intake by TFS are you using? I never recommend a HV pump in the windser engines. The drive gear is to small and one out of 5 will distroy the engine.
Ed, about 360hp. I think you are running to much carb for your engine. I think you would be happier and have better throdle responce with a 650 carb.
jhilb, 380-400hp with the right tune
Joe, 450hp at sea level. Best guess would be 385-395hp at your altitude.

[billynewk]

Gordon, excellent predictions! Recently Dyno-jet session yielded 500 RWHP/450RWTQ. Intake is TFS EFI 90mm. What is your recommended intake manifold, as I might need it ;)

[RSAmreica]

Gordon,
You're a glutton for punishment.
Simple question.
Street motor.
FMS 393 stroker.
AFR 185 heads.
A slightly more agressive Comp cam.
750 CFM Holley carb,vacuum secondardies.
An article says 525HP.
YA THINK?
Joe

[edhunter]

Gordon: again thanks for taking your time here... my motor came with the 750dp carb on it, so that's why it's still there... The guy I bought the motor from in Atlanta said it had it custom jetted by a guy who worked for Bill Elliott... carb has no choke, pretty gutted... But you know how that goes, could've been the Bill Elliott who works at Joe's bar and garage! Anyway that was my thoughts too, figured I'd see what I had before I bought another carb...
Thanks again, I think I can live with 360... still plan to take you up on the tranny rebuild when my T5 goes south...
ed

[Gordon Levy]

65, I think that might be a little optimistic. It will probably be closer to 475hp. Much depends on cam profile and intake.

[dale]

Stock 302 short block, E303 cam, Twisted Wedge heads, GT 40 upper&lower, 65mm throttle body, 70mm MAF, 24#, 155 liter pump. No emmissions (PCV).

[Moosepuck]

Okay, gotta try....

Stock 1993 302 bottom end, AFR 165's(58cc), Trick flow stage 1 cam, 1.6 RR's, Weiand stealth intake and probably a holley 600cfm dp(haven't bought carb yet). Hoping for 350 or more at the flywheel....

[Cop I Am]

Me next...SVO 9.5 iron block 4.040 bore/3.9 stroke billet crank,billet 6.250 rods with custom pistons 14.5:1 comp. gas ported and coated.TFS-R heads w/ 51cc combustion chambers titanium valves 350cfm@.700 on int and 267cfm @.700 on exh.Cam has .686 lift solid roller with 1.7 ratio rockers.Fully ported Super Vic with BG gold claw flowing 980cfm.
NOW I'M LOOKING FOR A COBRA TO PUT IT IN...THE SEARCH IS ON!!!

[Gordon Levy]

Dale, about 340hp
Moose, You will be a little short at 330-340.
Cop, Nice package. Properly tuned 650-700hp and torque in the 550-600 range. It really depends on how hard you decide to turn the engine.

[Moosepuck]

That'll likely be enough for me. Thanks so much for spending the time you do answering all of these questions... I do have one more for ya.. Is the cam holding it back any? Would I be better off with an alphabet cam or another. Everything else I'm happy with for now, I know the cam can make all the difference in the world, i should have gotten on here before I ordered the cam. It's not too late for me to change my mind on it, it's still out and only half-way built. Do you have a suggestion that might add some worthwhile torque and HP? I was looking for something with a good strong low end since I'll be using 3.08's for as long as I can stand it.

Thanks again for your time and expertise!

[Gordon Levy]

The stage 1 cam is pretty good, alot better than any of the letter cams. The problem is using the stock pistons, you limits on valve lift is.530. I have a cam that we designed for using in this type of engine. I have one in my 93 Cobra mustang and it screams. Your cam will work well with the 3:08's but will fall short at high revs if you want with more gear.

[Cop I Am]

Thanks for the reply. Carroll Carter of C&C auto Machine/performance in Manassass,Va freshened and dyno'd the motor. It made 752hp @ 7300rpm.It pushed a 3300 pound Mustang to 10.20's @ 134-135.

[bchaulk]

Hey Gordon

I have a 1972 351w at the shop now, I've been told it's in great shape. It needs a clean up bore of .40 over. I want to stroke it out to
a 408 or so with 450+ on the HP. Any thoughts
on a parts list (ie Crank,cam,heads,and pistons)
I'll be running a Holley 950 TBI set up. I looking to make a streetable chest thumper
Thanks

[Gordon Levy]

A 408 kit at .040 over will be a 412cid. I highly recommend a high quality rotating assy, victor jr heads, one of my custom hydraulic rollers, and make sure you use a Victor jr style intake with your EFI system. This would give you well over 500hp and 500lbft of torque but can be daily driver reliable on pump premium. I can get you all the parts necessary for your engine build.

[bchaulk]

Thanks Gordon

What about an oil pump for that 408 stroker
I've seen where you have told others the down fall of a HV oil pump

[Brian F]

Gordan,
I am lookin' at purchasing the Ford GT-40 Crate rated at 345 HP with M-6250-B303 camshaft, Ford Racing induction kit, headers, and a 65mm. What would this engine run at if carbed? What options would bump HP up to around 360-380?

Thanks!
Brian

[Gordon Levy]

Yes it will work great with a proper carb set up. To get a little more power out of it it would need a cam change.

[rdorman]

Cool thread Gordon. I was particularly impressed at the guess that was later dyno'd and came so close.

How about this one:
351 Cleveland, big valve heads (no porting), open chamber, 9.5 to 1, crane 524422 226/230, .528/.536, (all specs at .050) intake 8btdc and 38 abdc, exhaust 50 bbdc and 0atdc, performer intake (going to a blue thunder), 700 holley, 2" primaries, pipes from Lucian at Pheonix exhaust.

Thanks!
Rick

[rdorman]

Forgot the head flow, 254 and 173 at those lifts

[mfcady]

Gordon, great post.

What would be you estimate for:
427W (4.125 bore, 4.0 stroke)
6.25 Rods
JE Inverted Dish pistons @ 10:1
AFR 185's
Vic junior
750 holley
CC XE284H(.540/.541 240/246@.050)
1.6 Roller rockers

Mark-

[Gordon Levy]

Rick, about 420hp. It really depends on the heads. Do you have 2bbl,4bbl or Australian heads? What kind of work has been done to them?
Mark, Pretty mild cam for this engine. With the right tune you should be able to so 500/500 out of this.

[Humbucker Jake]

This is indeed fun, and VERY informative!

I have a 2002 FRP 392 Crate Engine. It dyno'd 436 from the factory with the following specs:

HD "Sportsman" 2-bolt iron block, 3.850" stroke cast steel crankshaft, 9.7:1 hypereutectic pistons with full floating pins and plasma moly-filled steel top rings.

GT-40X "Turbo-Swirl" 64cc heads

Camshaft: Comp Cams hydraulic roller, .566" intake and .576" exhaust lift, 232º intake and 240º exhaust duration at 0.050" lift. Hydraulic tappets. 1.60:1 ratio roller rocker arms and dual valve springs.

Intake Manifold: Edelbrock "Performer RPM"
Carburetor: Holley 750
Air Filter: 14" Edlebrock w/3" Oiled Felt element
-----------------

The carb was upgraded to a JET Performance modified Holly 750 Double Pumper Stage III, and I'm about to replace the heads with AFR 185's. Any idea where I'll be after that? The articles say 75 hp more, but that seems optimistic. ??

Thanks a million!

[mfcady]

Gordon, Thanks for the input. 500 is close to what I was looking for. What cam would you recommend to bump it up another 30 or 40 HP?

Mark-

[Barry Barrett]

Gordon, just starting to gather parts for my MK III engine build. Looking for a streetable engine with some autocross. 351W stock stroke, TRW pistons #L2446F30 with a dish volume of 13.20 cc, Ford roller cam F303, 1.6 rockers, Victor Jr. manifold, 650 holley. FFR 4 into 4 headers. Heads either Ford Y303 or X303. Both have 64 cc chambers and will give a 9:1 compression ratio. Any suggestions and/or hp estimates would be appreciated. Barry

[rdorman]

Originally posted by Gordon Levy:
Rick, about 420hp. It really depends on the heads. Do you have 2bbl,4bbl or Australian heads? What kind of work has been done to them?
They are the 4bbl heads. Aside from a good three angle and blending the seats into the bowl no other port work has been done.

Do you think I will see much of a difference when I change out the performer for the Blue Thunder intake. They motor loves to rev but the performer weezes out at 5500.

What are good HP loss percentages for a toploader and a Jag IRS?

Next time I dyno it, I will let you know!
Thanks
Rick

[Gordon Levy]

Jake, If you use a Victor Jr intake with that head combo, I believe you will be knocking on the door of 500hp.
Old, Do not use the Ford letter cams, that don't make any real power. There are some comp grinds and some of my custom grinds that would work way better. I would also use the Performer RPM or Victor Jr heads. You can see a real 425-450 very confortably with my recommendations or 350-370 using the FFRP stuff.
Rick, the 4bbl heads will make great power. They really need some work on the exhaust side. The shape of the port needs some work. You ca use a port plate or have the exhaust ports filled and report them to a D shape like the Yates heads. This would really help make high rpm power. If you have the 71 4 bolt main block, 7200 revs is not a problem. The Blue thunder or other spider style intake will help on the top.

[Humbucker Jake]

Gordon, I thought about the Victor Jr intake, but a few individuals are telling me I would be sacrificing some lower end torque (3500-5000rpm), which seems like where most of the fun is with these Cobras, for just a little more high RPM horsepower. What would you do if you were me where most of my driving is between 2000-6000 rpm?

Going to the Victor Jr doesn't bother me at all. I know that intake rocks!

Thanks again for your time.

[rdorman]

I would use the RPM on a street motor. Jr. will create higher peak but the average is generally higher with the RPM.

Gordon. I have been thinking about playing with the heads. I certainly don't have the packaging issues for which they where designed.

yes, 4 bolt block. I have it set at 6600 limit but that is only because it is all done before that thanks in part to the current intake.

Thanks
Rick

[Rob Burton]

Gordon,
Stock '87 302 short block, hypeurtec pistons, Johne Kaase heads, Comp cams blower/nitrous cam, gt40 lower manifold, 42# injectors, Kenne Bell Blowzilla/Flowzilla 2.2 liter blower, 90mm throttle body, 90mm Mass Air, MSD ignition, K&N conical filter.

What do you think it will put out fully tuned?

[Gordon Levy]

Jake, it's a 2300lb, 90" wheel base car-Torque is not your friend. You have plenty of engine to fry the tires whenever you want in 1st and 2nd gear. The Victor jr intake is going to give you a big boost of power up top, you will never notice the minimal loss of torque on the low end.
On our dyno tests with different intakes, we changed from a RPM to a Victor to a Super Victor, you would be surprised at what we found.
This was tested on one of my stage 5 408 engine.
RPM done at 5200, made 480hp and a very flat 475lbft.
Victor JR, pulled to 6800 clean, made 540hp and 515lbft. The differences in torque down low were minimal
Super Victor- pulled clean to 6800 (red line of this engine), Made 560hp 520lbft. It pulled exactly like the Jr in the middle but made better power above 5000. We only lost 5lbft of torque below 3000 compaired to the Jr.
This works because of the added cubes of the stroker engine. If you were using a small engine like a 306 or a standard 351 then yes the RPM would help. The added cubes makes a big difference.
Rick, Work the heads, put a good set of rods in it, solid roller cam, and twist the heck out of it, you could make a really cool 550hp on pump gas. Put a 4:10 gear in the car and it would rip.
Rob, 500 on a pump gas tune. Maybe 40-50 more on a race gas tune.

[Humbucker Jake]

Good points... Truth is, I wanted a good excuse to get a Victor Jr intake anyway. Thanks!

[MarkTutt]

See if you still want to try another:

I saw earlier in the thread your comments about the F-28 with dual 500's. Here's what I'd been thinking about doing over the winter:

Stock short block from my 88HO engine
GT40 iron heads, gasket matched, mild cleanup.
AFM N-71 Hi-Rev cam & springs (*open to suggestioins here)
Edlebrock F-28 and dual 500CFM carbs
BBK Shorty headers

I think with the light weight of the roadster I can give up the bottom end torque to go for the high RPM screamer. Only worries are piston clearance...

Thoughts or predictions?

[Gordon Levy]

Mark, You have several things to concider.
The stock piston will only except .530 valve lift.
The stock rotating assy is only good for 6500 revs
The stock block is only good for 7000 revs if you use a good crank and long rods and it will break at some point because of the week block and main cap walk.
Need way more head to turn high revs.
Shorty headers will kill the power above 5500 revs.
My advice would be to keep it a hydraulic roller engine that can make 350hp comfortably. You can use the F28 intake but I think you will be way over carberated.

Don't let this detoure you from building a high revver, I love them. I'm saying using factory parts is going to create big reliabilty issues.

[MarkTutt]

It might be time to break into the piggy bank then. ;)

Moving to AFR or Twisted Wedge heads, have a preference?

I believe to really get up there in the RPM range I'd need to go solid roller?

What is the advantage to the long rod 306? i.e. changing to the 5.400 rod.

I found a Car Craft article with the Kaase heads and a +.600 lift solid roller that made 500+ HP and went to 7800RPM... Once on a stock 100000 mile short block.

[ September 20, 2005, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: Mark Tutt ]

[2FAST4U]

OK, here is mine:

331 stroker with 5.400 rod
AFR185 heads milled to 56 cc
Static compression 10.8:1
Ford X cam
Weber 48 IDA
Bundle of snakes exhaust with low restriction mufflers

[Gordon Levy]

Mark, If you want me to design an engine package I would be happy to. To have an engine work correctly all of the components have to match the intended use.
What they don't tell you in the magazine artical is how long it will last. Always take tech articals with a grain of salt, they aren't the whole truth most of the time. I will give you an example that I have personal knowledge of.
A friend was asked a few years ago to do an engine for a magazine. It is supposed to me a 600hp, blown, stock short block engine. He built it and they did 24 dyno pulls with it. It made over 600hp. What the artical didn't say was on the 24th pull the block blew in half.
Bill, through away the X cam, it is a POS.
With the proper cam, you can make a reliable 450-475hp ant 6500 revs.

[2FAST4U]

Thanks GL. Instead of throwing it away, I'll return it.

[Mustang Medic]

Gordon,
Here's my combo:
Std bore 5.0L Explorer block, flat top hypereutectic pistons, E303 cam, GTP40 heads, 59cc chambers, GT40 intake, 65MM Ford Racing throttle body, GT40P headers, 24 lb injectors, stock EFI distributor. Only accessory is Power Steering pump.
Flywheel HP? Rear wheel HP with 3.35 First Cobra T5?
Thanks,
Chuck

[Gordon Levy]

335 flywheel, 265 rear wheel hp with a good tune.

[Trent]

Hello Gordon,
My motor....

351W stroker,
Block was square decked, line honed, square bored and honed with honing plates
Block has oil restrictors installed for the mains and rods
main studs were installed
Engle Roller Camshaft .535Lift 230 Dur. @50
Hardened Crane Pushrods
SRP Pistons .040 9:6 to 1
File fit Chrome Moly Rings
4340 Steel Crank 4.100 Stroke
Dual Roller Timing Chain
Engine is balanced
4340 H-Beam rods 6.200 length

Trick Flow Twisted Wedge Aluminum Cylinder Heads
2.02 Intake Valves
1.600 Ex. Valves
61cc Chambers
Hardened Keepers
Hardened Guide plates were installed 7/16
Tall Large Radius Hardened 3/8 Studs installed
Full Roller Rockers 1:6 Ratio were used
Competition Valve Job

Considering either Edelbrock 2x4 barrel (F28 low rise intake) with two 500 cfm edelbrock carbs (302 intake with adaptor plates) or instead using a dual plane with a 750 or 850? holley 4 barrel. Your thoughts on the Hp and torque numbers would be appreciated as well as you insight into my induction options.
Thanks!
Trent

[Gordon Levy]

Trent, Nice package. I personally would have gone with much more cam but thats me. I believe you will be in the 475-490hp and 500+ on torque. On the cid of this engine the heads you are using is a large choke and will cost you some significant power.
For intake I would use a Victor Jr or Super Victor on this engine. The F28 intake would look cool but it will take some work to tune in the Edelbrock carbs to optimize the package.
If you used a set of Victor Jr or comparable heads and a bit more cam, you will pick up well over 50hp and torque.

[Trent]

Gordon,
I will carefully consider your advice. I appreciate your reply.
Trent

[Mustang Medic]

Gordon,
Thanks for your reply. I also have the X3Z
Cobra Computer in the Ford Racing Kits. Are there any "warts" with that regarding a "good tune"?
Thanks again,
Chuck

[Gordon Levy]

The only wart I see is the X3 computer. I don't what it is about it but it just doesn't work as well as a A9L.

[wrench87]

gordon i was looking for an estimate on my horsepower, i have been told that my stroker motor would not make much more then the 302 but it would have more tourque?, i have a 342 with a
e cam 1.7 rockers 10.4 comp performer heads mass
flo system with the tourqer 2 manifold 30 lb injectors and shorty headers?

[french-connection]

Gordon,
could you try mine please.

5.0 bored 30 thousands over
E-cam
stock heads and 19# injectors :(
Mass-Flo system from Quality Roadsters
Mac shorty headers
3.55 gears
What do you think?
would it be worth to get the heads ported?

Thanks,

Olivier

[ September 30, 2005, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: french-connection ]

[Gordon Levy]

300-310hp.

[french-connection]

Gordon.

Who has the 300hp, Wrench, or me?

Thanks

[Gordon Levy]

you

[french-connection]

Great, thanks!!

I'll try to find a dyno sometimes and check it out.
Do you think porting the heads would make a difference?

Olivier

[mdspicer]

Gordon,

Regarding Oliver's (aka French Connection)setup, can I assume that it's 300hp at the flywheel?

Thanks,

Marc

[Gordon Levy]

Marc, all guesses are flywheel hp unless otherwise stated.
French, Yes

[vortechsq]

Gordon, ran this combo in a mustang and ran really strong. never made it to the dyno, but the car ran 11.9@115.01 @ 3015 lbs w/4.10's

306 9.8:1
Twisted Wedge out of the box
crower 15512 w/1.7 222/228 .496/.512 (w/1.6's)
93 cobra intake (hand port matched lower)
30 lb inj.
70mm TB
75mm Pro-M
underdrive pulleys
alt & water pump only accessories
with cats?
without cats?

[Gordon Levy]

Realistic flywheel hp should be about 380hp.

[tarheelcoupe]

Gordon,

Your assistance is appreciated. 302 bored .40 over, trick flow twisted wedge heads graemlins/darkbluecoupe.gif graemlins/darkbluecoupe.gif , trick flow stage 1 track heat cam, fms hyd. roller lifters. Rpm air gap intake with 670 street avenger. Keith Black SILV-O-LITE Hypereutectic Pistons,CR 8.5:1

Thanks

[Gordon Levy]

About 350hp

[cougit]

289 block 30 over, 302 crank and stock rods flat top pistons ford 271 horse cam and heads ported
performer air gap,580 holly

[Gordon Levy]

300hp

[cougit]

If you could only afford 1 which would you pick
stroker kit or alum heads?
289 block

[Gordon Levy]

Heads, cam, intake

[DwHoyle]

342" cleavland, 4V iron heads, 13.6/1 comp, 3.19" stroke 4.135" bore, .721 roller 318 dur, single plane [Active] intake, 950 holley HP, max rpm is 8100. Have a shot Gordon. Thanks!
D

[P Wyman]

My motor (if NYS lets me)

Explorer 302 (2001), Offy 360 Dual Quad Intake w/ 500 cfm Carters, Stock GT40p heads, 4 into 4's

What cam do you think would work best? (I was leaning towards Trick Flow Stage 1)

I know I have too much carb but I want the "look", How can I max this combo and stay on a budget of $350-500? (Including the cam)

Thanks, Pat

[Gordon Levy]

Dw, I bet it would be pretty close to 700hp. Maybe a little more is you revised the exhaust ports.
Pat, The TFS stage 1 is OK. I have a couple that also would make good power. I would really think about better heads. With a decent cam and your current combo I really don't see more than about 300-310hp.

[DFRESH]

Gordon,
I have no idea how you find the time for all of this :D but I'll give you my set up:

351W non roller motor .030 over.
Speedpro hypereutectic pistons 9.5:1 comp.
Comp Cams Magnum 280H 280* .512"
1.6 Roller tip (not full roller) rockers
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
Holley 670 Street Avenger carb
Stock heads with valve job/new springs, no porting
Windage tray/crank scraper

As a side note, what aluminum heads would you recommend for this set up and what HP would you think I would end up with after adding them? Thanks,
Doug

[Gordon Levy]

350-360hp but you will be up there in torque.
Finding time to do this is always a challenge. I look at it as saving up on beer credits from you guys. When summer comes around again and it starts getting a "little warm" around here, I plan on cashing in on you guys. It should be able to keep me in Becks for the summer.

[DFRESH]

Gordon,
What aluminum heads would you recommend for my set up above and how much more HP can I expect from them?

Also: How about this one from the Mustang me and my dad restored:
302 .030 over non roller
Stock bottom end
8.5:1 compression hypereutetic pistons
Performer intake
Holley 600 cfm carb
Edelbrock performer RPM heads
Edelbrock RPM cam 224/234 496/520
roller tip rockers
tubular headers

Thanks again,
Doug

[ November 14, 2005, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: DFRESH ]

[Gordon Levy]

325

[french-connection]

Gordon.

I would like to upgrade with heads and other cam.
I have the MassFlow system with a Torquer II intake.
The engine is bored 30 over.
I'm interested in the AFR heads, or are there other ones that would suit the intake better?
What cam would be the best to go with that combination?
What HP could I expect with it?

Thanks,

Olivier

[cam872k3]

what would a 347 stroker built to 400+ hp be with a turbo kit pushing 8 psi

[cam872k3]

aprox how much would it cost (at a machine shop to bring them a block, 347 stroker kit, and cam)to put it together

[Gordon Levy]

Oliver, what pistons do you have?

Cam, I have built a couple of engine like this. This would be basically my stage 4 engine set up for the turbo. In the past on a conservative tune we have done well over 600hp and 550 torque. At this level I would recommend using a SVO or Dart block. Cost of an engine like this would be $8000-$10,000 depending on block used with out the turbo.

[DwHoyle]

Hay Gordon got a new one for ya.
347" / 302 stroker ap. 10.6 cr. steel crank h beam rods. alumm heads 2.02 1.60 springs are at 130 seat x 303 cam 1.6 rockers dual plane intake 650 dp holley. I am looking for about 360 or so hp.
Thanks!
D

[french-connection]

Gordon.

I got it refreshedhen it came out of the donor.
I guess hypereutectic. It just got bored .030".

What could I expect with AFR 165 58cc, e-cam and 24# injectors?

Thanks

[Cobrastang]

-302 roller block-stock crank with hypereutectic pistons
-.30 over with around 9.2:1 compression with the
-afr 165cc street heads
-mass flo injection 1000cfm throttle body
-30lb injectors
-single plane spider intake manifold
-scorpion roller rockers
-crane cam, duration 216/220, lift .533/.544, lobe seperation 112
-4x4 headers
My Dyno2003 program claims the engine will have 427 hp at the flywheel. What do you guys think? Ended up spending about 5,000 in the engine including the clutch and billet pulleys-not bad!!!

Car feels unbelievable fast so far, but i am a little scared to push it since i have not yet had the alignment set up and the gas pedal is sensitive.

[ November 24, 2005, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: CorBraStang ]

[Gr8Cobra]

Gordon, I have a Ford Crate 302 (345HP) with GT-40 haluminum heads, E303 cam and an Accel EFI unit. Using an AOD for power transfer. What can I expect for RWHP? Would you recommned a different cam if so, which cam? Or should I consider building a moderate stroker for all around driving if I wanted to increase my RWHP?

[Gordon Levy]

Dw, You should be around the 370-380hp mark.
French- about 350hp
CorB- I never liked Desktop dyno as the numbers are a bit embelished. I feel your engine would be around 370hp tops.
G8- without any changed you are going to be in the 340-350hp range. Yes I would recommend a cam change but you have limitations with your pistons. I stroker would help some but unless you want to change everything, the gains wouldn't be worth the cost.

[DwHoyle]

Thanks Gordon i was looking for about 360 so it puts me in the ballpark.
D

[fiscalsloth]

Here's a combo I've been playing around with in Virtual Dyno with a 65 Coup in mind, but there's no way it can be particularly precice. I don't know how much or exactly what info you need for a reliable prediction or calculation so here's what I do know:

351w (4x3.5)
Mahle pistons w/6.6cc reliefs, 414g weight
665g 6.2" connecting rods
gasket w/4.03 bore, compressed to .04
Performer RPM heads w/2.02 valves on intake
F303 cam
Edelbrock Pro-Flo EFI

Electric water pump and fan
Catalytic converters

[Gordon Levy]

Volvo, Right about 400hp. You can get significantly more going with a much better cam and heads.

[mikejolly]

Hi Gordon. I would like to do the engine build myself. I would like to state with a alum 351w block and stroke it for somewhere close to 427. I talked to a real nice guy a RDI about their setups,# 14 in particular. They said it is streetable. I don't have a lot of experience but I can read and listen. Am I crazy? Tell me what you would recomend? Thankyou

[Gordon Levy]

RDI does some very good stuff. If you ask them for a streetable set up they will give you one.
I am not a fan of the 427 stroker windser, I prefer the 408. Using the aluminum block though is much better than a standard block. You can use a shorter stroke and bore it larger to get the cubes you want.
I also can not recommend building an engine like this yourself unless you have significant experience doing it. You are going to spend a lot of money on the parts for an engine like this that can be turned into a boat anchore in a matter of seconds of everything isn't just right.
If you do insist on building it yourself, please do it with someone that has the experience.

[mikejolly]

Thanks. I had hoped to have them do the machine work, balance and pre assemble. I wanted to do the final. If you think that is to tuff I would deffer to your expertise. Maybe I will start with a donor motor and learn step by step, I still would like to know about what stuff you have for the spyder? Thanks again

[Gordon Levy]

It's a complete kit- that's all.

[mikejolly]

Thanks. I was very impressed by your website. I had not realized that that was your trade until I started looking through for a donor pack.

[Cheapsnake]

This is a Jasper Perfomance engine that I got on a super deal. Unfortunately, it came with NO documentation whatsoever and Jasper doesn't keep very good records so I had to do some reverse engineering on it to get the spec's I have, but I think they're pretty good:
351w, .030" over
10.3 CR (measured by cc'ing)
Hyper pistons, double valve relief
E7 heads, appear to be stock and unported
cam lift is ~.470", don't have a make/no, but FRPP #M-6250-A332 looks to be pretty close
Edelbrock AVS650
MSD 6AL

What would a head change to Edelbrock Jr's get me and is this enough cam?
Thanks a bunch!

Tom

[Gordon Levy]

Not nearly enough cam. A set of JR's with the right cam and intake will net you more power but it will be very high on the RPM band. I see the possibility of 425hp at arounf 6500-7000 revs.
Since this is a basic engine rebuild I would concider a very good cam, Performer RPM heads, Victor JR intake and a Holley 4150 650 pro series carb.

[MakeMYday]

Gorden, Having a problem with lot of unburn fuel coming out the exhaust during idle. Thank You for any help on this matter. The engine is a 306 w/Trick flow twisted wredge heads 2.02v 1.60v 61cc. Trick flow track heat intake. Trick flow 1.6 rockers. Trick flow push rods. Trick flow stageII cam 224/232-542/563. Ford motor sport 24lb-injectors. BBK trottle body egr75mm. 75mm prom massair. BBK fuel regulator/ MSD/ 1-5/8" headers. Thanks Gorden, Oh..and maybe what HP. you think this engine can produce...

[thardin]

Gordon,

The following 331 motor is just an "idea" at this time, but I was curious what you thought. I still have many details to sort out but here is a first pass. I plan to use this motor for autoX and occasional track days.

Dart 9.2" deck 4.125 bore
Sonny Bryant billet crank 3.1" stroke
AFR 205 heads with jessel sportsman rockers (1.7 to 1?).
10.75 or 11.25 to 1 compression ratio.
Total seal gapless rings.
Cam specs solid roller w/ Lift: .625ish Duration @ .50 260ish Lobe Sep. 110
Jessel Belt drive
Crank trigger ignition
Victor Jr. intake.
Barnes 6 stage dry sump system
Tilton 7.25" tripple disc clutch.

Would love to hear your thoughts about rod length and appropriate pistons.

[mikejolly]

Gordon, I bought the books you recomended. They should be here today. If you where in my place what would you do; buy a salvage block(what years) and disassemble it and then do the remanufacture or would you buy a new blockFord, dar, man o war) and do the line boring decking clearencing the whole nine yards. What head are you favorite. I guess I would like a reicpe for a stroker 351. Could you talk about windor vs clevland. If this is to much to ask for or is in the wrong place just zap it.

[Gordon Levy]

Make, you have to much t-body, you would be better off with a 70mm. Check your fuel pressure, it should be right at 41# with the vac. disconnected. I believe 350 flywheel hp is realistic.
Tom, I would like to talk to you about you proposed package, please give me a call at 480-446-8442 when you have a few minutes.
Jolly, I will get back to you when I have a bit more time. The questions you ask require long answers.

[mikejolly]

Thank you

[MakeMYday]

Thanks Gordon

[Michael Stora]

Gordon, How about a stock '91-'92 bottom (a forged piston year) with AFR or Edel heads (of your choice-but keeping a future 331 rebuild possible), Mass-Flo (with Vic Jr.), 4-into-4, custom grind cam designed for highend, no PS, elec. water pump. Don't mind high idle. Want something that can cruise at 1750-2000 without bucking although I don't mind if it has no getup (I can downshift to accelerate),

Is 320 at the wheels possible? Are Car Craft engine dyno numbers full of s**t?

Mike

[ February 14, 2006, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: Michael Stora ]

[Gordon Levy]

Mike, Yes it is possible at least for a short time. Realisticly for longevity 290-300 rwhp would be the right number on this package.
Magazine articals should be taken with a grain of salt. They do tend to embelish numbers for the sake of their advertizers and almost never tell the whole story.
Unrelated, I would like to talk to you about maricopa. Please give me a call when you have a moment.

[Michael Stora]

Thanks Gordon. I'm trying keep my initial costs low so as not to put the car off too long, but not make any choices that will cutoff incremental upgrade options.

Mike

PS: I only have your shop number. Are you going to be there Saturday, I have an errand in Tempe anyway. I bought my house in Maricopa in August '03.

[ February 14, 2006, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: Michael Stora ]

[Gordon Levy]

I will be here until noon on sat. Please come by.

[mikejolly]

How are you doing Gordon. Does it make a huge difference to have a four bolt block verus a two bolt block in a windsor?

[StangNinjak]

Hello ! I am new to this forum, and I see many interesting posts here, and very good info. So...I am rebuilding this Engine, can you tell me how it will do ?

Remanufactured 94-97 351w Roller Block 0.40 over bore)
Keith Black SILV-O-LITE Pistons (9.5:1 CR)
Three Piece Cloyes Street Racer Double Roller High Performance Timing Set

Trick Flow's Twisted Wedge
61cc Combustion Chamber
2.02 Intake Valves
1.60 Exhaust Valves
Trick Flow 1.6 Ratio Roller Rocker Arms

Cam Specs:
Trick Flow Track Heat Camshaft Lift: .499 in. intake / .510 in. exhaust
Duration: .275 intake / .279 exhaust
Lobe Separation: 112 Degrees

Intake:
Edelbrock Performer RPM

Carburator:
Holley Street Avenger 770.

Headers:
Headmans Longtubes 1 5/8

Thanx in advance for your time !

[Gordon Levy]

Joly, it realy depends on how hard you want to turn the engine. A 2 bolt block will turn 7000 rev reliably with the right parts on a regular basis. If you want to turn higher than that then a better block is required.
Stang, 375-400 flywheel hp with the right tune.

[StangNinjak]

Thanx for the info..so that would put me at about 340 RWHP if I can get 400 at the fly. Hmm question is my cam to small ? aAlso am I using to much carb on that setup ?

would a 670 be better from Holley ?

[Gordon Levy]

A 650 pro series or 670 will work better. I think you need more cam, intake, and 1 3/4" primary tube headers.

[StangNinjak]

Uggg...I was hoping that carb would not be to big for my use...Will it hurt my setup/tune much ? and what intake and cam would you suggest ? This is going to be a more street car.

[mikejolly]

Gordon do you have a choose Dart or World or are there others that you perfer? Do these come clearenced for stroked cranks? Thanks

[huntnfish08]

Hey Gordon,

This has just been floating around in my head for a little while: '96 explorer block 302, ported GT40p heads, 1.6 rockers, Gt40 intake, 65mm TB, e303 cam, underdrive pullies, and 24# inj. through the t5 tranny.

guessing around 310HP? is this about right?
Adam

[Gordon Levy]

Stang, I have a few cams that work really well. I also prefer the Victor Jr or super victor intakes.
Jolly, Motorsport blocks are generally what I use. I get them for the people that supply FFRP.
Adam, about 300-310hp is correct for this set up.

[MarkTutt]

Well, I gave up on the idea of my high-revving engine when I got a good deal on some lightly used top end pieces. I'd love to hear what you'd guess out of this combo, I'm starting assembly this month... ;)

Stock 88 Short Block
TFS Track Heats, Stage 1 Ported
Crane 1.60 Roller Rockers
Victor Jr. Intake
BG Speed Demon 650
Custom Comp Cam
Gross Lift @ 1.60 .5552/.5552
Duration @ .050” Tappet Lift: 218*/224*
Lobe Separation: 110*

[Gordon Levy]

Mark, You are going to have to change pistons to use that cam. It has way to much lift to be comforable with stock 5.0 pistons.

[MarkTutt]

Yeah, I was surpised at the lift with stock pistons, and I'm definately going to clay it up. The cam guru I bought it from says he'll stand by his claim that it will clear fine with the TFS heads.

I'll let you know if it clears!

[huntnfish08]

Gordon,

if using gt40ps ported by "Thumper" and a good cam and stock gt40 intake would 400 be feasible?

[Gordon Levy]

Adam, possible but not likely in anything that wasn't supercharged or undrivable on the street.
Mark, I would be curious. In my experience with 2.02" valve heads, .530" valve lift is as much as is safe. Yes you may be able to use a little more but it is to much of a risk. With the rotated intake valve design of the twisted wedge heads, you clearences become closer. When you clay it do not use a head gasket under the head. If it clears with the gasket it should be fine with the gasket.

[thardin]

Gordon,

OK, I have picked up some parts recently (stole them) and would like your guess @ possible horsepower.

SVO R-block 9.2 deck
Sonny Bryant Billet crank with 3.450 stroke
6.2 Carillo rods
JE forged pistons for Yates Heads 4.060 (13.5 to 1?)
Yates C3 Heads with 44cc Combustion Chambers- Flow 340cfm@0.700"
DelWest Titanium Valves 2.18"In/1.625" Ex, Titanium Retainers, Jesel Shaft Rockers 1.65"In/Ex
Comp Cams Custom Grind- 109LSA 259/262 Duration @ 0.050" .693"/.691" Lift
Jessel .937 roller lifters with .850 roller
SVO/Yates intake
830 CFM carb
Jessel belt drive
Barnes 6 stage dry sump pump and low tension gapless rings.

Most of these components are in hand, but would not mind suggestions before I finalize things.

Thanks, Tom

[Gordon Levy]

750 is real probable. I would use a little different cam profile but that one isn't bad.

[Butch B]

Gorden,

Thanks for all the info above & for my set-up below. smile.gif

Stock bottom-end '90 5.0
Edelbrock Performer RPM 1.90 / 1.60 w/1.6 rollers
Edelbrock Performer RPM (slight porting) intake
T F Stage #1 cam
BBK 65 mm T B
BBK 65 mm egr
Pro-M 80 mm MAF
24 lbs FMS injectors
190 lph fuelpump/fuel reg 38lbs
underdrive pulleys

Thanks again

[Gordon Levy]

340hp

[thardin]

Gordon,

Thanks for the response. A couple of questions regarding the motor in my previous post whenever you have a moment:

What RPM range will this motor be happy in?

What gearset would you go with for this motor? I plan to run a TKO600 with a .82 5th gear. I plan to run a a 315 rear tire combination.

Plans are for autocrossing & track days. I have IRS and a Torsen T2 but have not assembled yet, as I had not made a decision on the motor combination. I have 3.27 gears now, but imagine they will not work with this combination.

I have a tilton 7.25 tripple disk clutch set-up if it makes a difference in your decision. Thanks again,

Tom

[ March 28, 2006, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: Tom Hardin ]

[Butch B]

Gordon,
Went to the dyno today-
Your guess was 340 hp-
Dynoed @ 338 hp-
You know your motors!!
Thanks again
Butch

[Gordon Levy]

Tom, it's going to pul nice for around 4000- 7800 or so. I would put a lot of gear in the car. 4:10 or even a 4:30 in the road courses depending on the track and 4:56- 4:88 for autocross.
You are really going to need to work the suspension to put the power down as well as set up.
Butch, your welcome

[thardin]

Thanks Gordon. You are the MAN !!!

[willspeed]

Well, we're thinking of hitting the dyno soon, so it's time for The Question.

Here's our setup:

'89 5.0 Stock bottom end
Stock cam
Edelbrock Performer RPM 5.0 1.9/1.6 w/1.6 roller rockers
Port matched stock intake (to heads & blower)
Kenne Bell 1.5l 5.0 System - 5-6 psi
65mm Edelbrock TB
80mm Pro-M MAF (EECIV is tuned to accept this MAF transfer table from TwEECer)
Cold air intake
30 lb/hr FMS injectors
190lph fuel pump - pushes up to 48psi
MAC 1-5/8" Equal Length shorties
FFR Catalytic Converters


Thanks in advance!

Cheers,

Will

[bigant]

Gordon I am going to build a 408 and need a little
guidance. What will it take to get 500+hp and 500+tq. There is so much info out there that it gets confusing. It needs to be streetable, run on 91 octane, carbed and be n/a. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also do you know of any shops in tucson that can set up an 8.8 for me and
what gears should I run with 17" wheels and a t56?

Thank You,
Anthony

[ April 22, 2006, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: bigant ]

[Gordon Levy]

Anthony, Check out my stage 5 engine on my website at www.levyracing.com (http://www.levyracing.com) in the engines section. We can also set up your diff. Feel free to give me a call at 480-446-8442.

[bcnewburn]

what would it take to get a 302 to 371 specs?
Duck

[Gordon Levy]

If you are talking about cid's- a 351 block.

[Mimiscobra]

Gordon,

5.0L bored 30 over
9.5:1 compression
Thumper E7TE heads with 1.85"/1.54" valves
Lunati 51017 cam (218/228, 0.536"/0.536", 112/108 lobe/int CL
'93 Cobra EFI intake
65mm TB
77mm MAF
24# FMS injectors
1.6 FMS roller rockers

Just looking for a bit of fun with 3.55 gears.

Stew

[TexasCoastie]

OK, here is one I have been thinking about, so lets see what the master thinks.
We will start with one of the soon to be re-released Boss 302 blocks bored to 4.10" with a forged 3.25" crank, giving 343 cid, forged rods & pistons. A set of AFR 185cc heads w/the 75cc exhaust port option topped w/aluminum roller rockers, titanium retainers & keepers, shooting for around 10:1 comp ratio so pump gas is usable. The cam would be hyd roller with the following specs: Int lift- .556 Exh lift- .562 Int dur- 228* Exh dur- 236* w/a 112* lobe center. MSD Pro Billet dist, Fluidampr, and aluminum flywheel. Now here is the part that is 'outside the box', top this all with a Pony Carbs 2100 Tri-Power setup. Of course the intake would be worked so the runner flow is equalized and is seamless from the intake to the heads. OK, what do you think? graemlins/silver.gif

[cheap]

347W
SRP (JE) 10:5:1 flat tops
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge Aluminum Heads
Trick Flow 1.72 Roller Rockers
Anderson N-91 Camshaft (238/248 @50 approx .610 lift with these rockers)
Edelbrock Victor JR. Carb Intake converted to EFI
mass-flo TB and MAF
30lb injectors

[Gordon Levy]

Stew, about 320
Tex, 450-470 real world power
Cheap- right around 500hp. The heads you chose is going to kill the power. You are also going to need more injector.

[Mimiscobra]

Gordon,

Thanks, just what I'm looking for. I guestimated as much but my Dyno 2000 gave out 378hp@5500rpm and 418ft.lb.@4000rpm.

Do you know if Desktop Dyno gives gross or net pwr/tq figures. It seems to produce figures that match 1960s style power figures, but not SAE net ones.

Stew

[Mimiscobra]

Sorry, that was at 10:1, but even at 9.5:1, it gives 369/410.

Stew

[cheap]

I'll be using a stock block, so it's probably a good idea not to shoot for much more than 500. Thanks for the guesstimate - what would you think I'll need, #36s or #42s? the calc on musclemotors put out #42 on a .50 BFSC @ 80% injector rate around 45psi

[willspeed]

Originally posted by willspeed:
Well, we're thinking of hitting the dyno soon, so it's time for The Question.

Here's our setup:

'89 5.0 Stock bottom end
Stock cam
Edelbrock Performer RPM 5.0 1.9/1.6 w/1.6 roller rockers
Port matched stock intake (to heads & blower)
Kenne Bell 1.5l 5.0 System - 5-6 psi
65mm Edelbrock TB
80mm Pro-M MAF (EECIV is tuned to accept this MAF transfer table from TwEECer)
Cold air intake
30 lb/hr FMS injectors
190lph fuel pump - pushes up to 48psi
MAC 1-5/8" Equal Length shorties
FFR Catalytic Converters


Thanks in advance!

Cheers,

Will Gordon: Any idea about this?

[Dutch_Cobra]

Hi Gordon,

I have something like "Mustang Medic" op page three so the rough numbers should be the same but I have one unknown in my combo:

The CAM is the actual 'Explorer Cam' in my 1997 Explorer rebuild engine.
I picked it up as a exchange engine complete with intake.
I have never been able to determine which cam is in there. Can you?

My Combo.

1997 Explorer 5.0.
GT40P heads
Explorer lower and upper intake
19# injectors from the Explorer build up.
FMS MAF conversion kit 75mm meter en EEC.
FMS throttlebody and EGR 65 mm.
FMS shorty headers, FFR Cats.
Tremec 3550.

I like the drive but is major difference to be expected if I change the CAM and what are the numbers with the current and what with your recommended cam?

Thanks id advance.

Rob

[shellvalleyowner]

Stew, DD2K gives out net. Or at least in my experience it does.

I had a 425ci Windsor that I built. DD2k predicted 490hp. It dyno'd at 484.

I'm getting to where I know how to use the program now...I put in the LCS engine that was built by Keith Craft. I was 1 horsepower off from the actual dyno numbers.

You HAVE to have the correct head files to make it accurate....and you have to understand the different cam specs in the program.

Also, use small tube headers and open exhaust for your exhaust system. It gives the most accurate results.

[ggh]

Hi Gordon How about 408 nowak Crower 680/669lift 268/247dura .050 107 centresolid roller victor jr intake dart windsor heads fully ported Barry Grant 750 cfm flows 1050 9.25/1 compression Will this motor run on the street or what will it take to detune it. Thanks for all your on this thread. Greg

[Eye Candy]

Gordon: What would be the fastest lap time/most enjoyable to drive/good value engine set up to put in a FFR Challenge car to use for track days (ie not spec legal)?
What other modifications should a more powerful spec racer have to go along with the "dream engine" set up?
Would adding FI such as the KenneBell supercharger to the stock motor be worthwhile as an alternative to an engine swap, as it can easily be removed to return the car to spec legal in the future?
Thanks: MG

[muck]

stock block, ported ET7E heads, E303 cam, GT40 tubular upper lower intake, 1.7 roler rockers, 75 mm mass air, 24lb injectors, Under-drive pulleys,Mac shorties

[Gordon Levy]

Sorry it's been so long since I have answered this thread but here goes.
Will, about 400hp
Dutch, about 350hp is the most you can reasonably expect to get out of it. I can help with a cam is you want to call of e-mail me at info@levyracing.com.
Tin, right in the 600hp ball park. There are a couple of factors that will help of hurt your numbers.
Gray, I really don't like blowers in a race car. They produce to much heat. For a car that is easy to drive quickly a blower is tha last thing you want. The blower adds a lot of torque and torque is not your friend in a 90" wheel base, 2300 lb car. I would be a nice higher revving NAS small block. It will be dead reliable and you will have a lot of fun with it.
Muck, about 320hp

[willspeed]

Thanks, Gordon.. Dad and I random guessed it at 375.

wOOt! :D

[Rapid Z]

Gordon,my 427w combo as follows,that will go in the 1 day build car you painted and help build for Mike Senior.

Dart 4 bolt main block CNC machined 4.125 bore.
Forged micro polished,chamfered 4.000 stroked crank.
H beam 6.200 rods.
Lightweight forged 10.2 compression pistons.
Hydraulic Roller .544/.573 lift,238/248 duration @.050
1.6 ratio full roller rocker arms.
AFR 205 fully CNC ported heads.
Edelbrock Victor Jr. intake manifold.
Holley 750 dual feed,dual pumper carb.
TKO 600 w/kevlar clutch

[Gordon Levy]

Pinoy, thats a really small cam for that much engine. I feel your are going to be around 520hp bit you are going to have over 550 in torque. It's going to come on hard around 2800 revs. Be careful.

[Rapid Z]

Gordon,I guess that cam is really good just for putting around town,maybe I'll a go 'lil bigger cam as soon as I familiarize my self driving a car with that much torque,I'll be careful thank you.

Nelson graemlins/yellow.gif

[ October 22, 2006, 05:37 AM: Message edited by: Pinoy 2 ]

[ghia]

Hi Gordon, since you are the goto Man in here... smile.gif

Econo Build Engine I did up yrs ago... less then 8K Mileage on it. Sitting in my 79' Ghia currently:

86' Stock 302 Rollar Cam Short Block
86' Hyper-Tech. Stock Pistons
91' Stock Rollar Cam
Edelbrock F4B Alum. Intake
Ford/Holly 85' Four Barrel
70' Ford Iron 351 Small Chamber Heads - 3 Angle Valve Job / Heavy Springs / Brass Guides / 1.84 & 1.54 (If I remeber correctly) Valves / 1.6 Stock rockers
March Under Pullies
Jacobs MileMaster 2-Gen Ingition
Jacobs 8.8 Wire
Jabobs King Coil
Plugs Indexed & Gapped to .065
Full Length Hedman headers

What would you guess for HP/Torque?
With the Holly it builds power like no ones business.
I have an Edelbrock 600CFM 1406 Carb on it now. A) does not build power even close to the Holly. (Which knew it wouldn't due the Edelbrock Stock jets B) It does get much better gas mileage thou.. Thinking the Holly will be getting rebuilt & back on when this engine goes to the Cobra for Short term. 427W will be main bobble later smile.gif

Gordon do you think I have room for 1.7 Ratio Rockers as I was thinking of dropping CompCam Springs in (What would you recommend for Seat pres.?)& Full Rollar Rockers.
I'd like 1.7 rockers, but I'm thinking they won't work with these pistons as there are no valve rel I know there is no way for more Cam... But thought maybe I could squeeze so 1.7's in?

Thanks - Much

Ron

[Gordon Levy]

Ron, about 270hp. You would benefit from a decent cam. Stick to a 1.6 roller rocker. With those heads about max hp would be around 320hp without getting to agressive.

[Nick Crate]

Gordon,
My roadster engine is a stock block '93 with SVO AL heads with 1.7 rockers, B303 cam, GT 40 intake with 24lb injectors, and Mac headers.
What do you think the power is?
I'm thinking of putting this engine in my coupe (not sure if the intake will fit under the hood yet) with a 331 or 347 stroker block, how much more power would it have?
FFR has indicated a preference for the E303 cam. How does the E cam compare (running quality and power) to my B cam?
When I do this change, do you have a better cam for me?
Thanks for your time,
Nick
graemlins/silver.gif graemlins/darkbluecoupe.gif

[ September 09, 2006, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Nick Crate ]

[ghia]

Originally posted by Gordon Levy:
Ron, about 270hp. You would benefit from a decent cam. Stick to a 1.6 roller rocker. With those heads about max hp would be around 320hp without getting to agressive. Thanks Gordon, can you suggest a Cam that would be better then the Stock 91'HO... Given that my 86' Block has Flat-Top Pistons. So I don't think I take any more Lift.

Ron

[Rapid Z]

Smeding Performance gave me the result of the dyno test,565 horsepower and 561 lbs. of torque at the flywheel.

Nelson

[66fstbk]

Gordon

I put together a low mi stock short block 95' HO.AFR 165 with 58cc and spring upgrade. Cam is custom grind int .544 286 deg, exh .544 294 deg, with 108 L/C. Holley 660 avenger, Edel Air-Gap, Mallory unilite.
After your comments on high flow oil pumps, I switched back to a standard one. Considerably more difficult doing in the car than out. The engine has been run but not driven or dyno tuned yet.
What do you think it will do?

[66fstbk]

Gordon

I put together a low mi stock short block 95' HO.AFR 165 with 58cc and spring upgrade. Cam is custom grind int .544 286 deg, exh .544 294 deg, with 108 L/C. Holley 660 avenger, Edel Air-Gap, Mallory unilite.
After your comments on high flow oil pumps, I switched back to a standard one. Considerably more difficult doing in the car than out. The engine has been run but not driven or dyno tuned yet.
What do you think it will do?

[Gordon Levy]

Pinoy, that is some pretty good numbers. A little more than I expected.
66, 360-370hp.

[66fstbk]

Gordon

Saw you on TV today. Nice Hemi Beeper. Nice lots of stuff. J Bittle, a local club member was on the same show also.

[paulownian]

I know this is an old thread, but if I could slide in a question on hp from my proposed engine:

347 machined ford racing block
Eaqgle 4340 forged crank
Eagle H-beam rods
Edelbrock Victor heads ported and bowls polished
intake manifold matched
roller lifters
roller rockers
14.1 JE pistons
Plasma moly rings
Federal Mogul bearings
ARP fasteners
Edelbrock Super Victor intake
MSD distributor
don't know about the carb yet, or use fuel injection with stacks
Canton power pan
ATI damper
internally balanced, blueprinted and assembled

[ October 20, 2006, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: paulownian ]

[Gordon Levy]

It really depends on cam profile. 500-525 depending on cam, can be as high as 600 but I need more info. With that compression I would use much better parts than Eagle. I hope you never plan on running anything but race gas in it.

[Gordon Levy]

Thanks 66, It was a lot of fun. You should see what we have laying around now.

[Snakefan]

Gordon,
I am planning the following and would like your insight.
'89 motor stock bottom end
AFR 165 heads
Comp EX266HR cam
w/216 int. 224 exh. duration @.050
.544 int. .555 exh. lift
Edelbrock F 28 dual quad Manifoldw/
Edel. 500 cfm carbs.

[Gordon Levy]

About 350hp. You are going to have way to much intake and carb.

[Nick Crate]

Gordon,
My roadster engine is a stock block '93 with SVO AL heads with 1.7 rockers, B303 cam, Cobra intake with 24lb injectors, and Mac headers.
What do you think the power is?
I'm thinking of putting this engine in my coupe (not sure if the intake will fit under the hood yet) with a 331 or 347 stroker block, how much more power would it have?
FFR has indicated a preference for the E303 cam. How does the E cam compare (running quality and power) to my B cam?
When I do this change, do you have a better cam for me?
Thanks for your time,
Nick
graemlins/silver.gif graemlins/darkbluecoupe.gif

[Shemmings]

Gordon,
I am in the planning stage and have landed on a 351W. Is it possible to get 400 - 450 fwhp just with doing the Top End? Or do I need to look at a stroker kit Thanks in advance for your help, so far I've read all the other posts in this thread and have a lot of great ideas running in my head!
Scott

[289FIA_Cobra]

*delete.*

[ November 18, 2006, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: 289FIA_Cobra ]

[Gordon Levy]

Nick, about 320hp. You probably know from reading my posts that I absolutely hate the Ford letter cams. I think there is way better out there.
A 347 can have 450hp with the right components and it will fit in the Coupe.
Vicking, possible but not likely. You really need to have a good, balanced rotating assy and fairly aggressive cam profile to make a real 450hp.

[jeffwarr]

How about this 408W:

new sportsman block, 4.030
scat 4.00 Crank
Internal zero balanced
scat 6.200 Hbeam rods
ross pistons

Cam:
238@.050 INT/246@.050 EXH
.600 Lift INT & EXH
112 LOBE SEP IN @ 111

custom CNC ported Twisted Wedge heads
65cc
2.02/1.60
305cfm INT/215cfm EXH

I am leaning to the Air Gap with a Holley 750 4150HP

How about Water pumps, Do you recommend the High Volume, is it worth the extra $?

Thanks for your efforts...

[Randall L.]

Gordon, I've got a stock '90 302 block with a mild cam, bored 30. over with stock heads and 1.7 rockers. Cobra upper and lower intake. 65mm throttle body and 24lb injectors.Also a performance chip. No smog, ac, or ps. What do you think?